Surplus Birmingham staff - what will happen to them?

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BoxerfanUK
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Surplus Birmingham staff - what will happen to them?

Post by BoxerfanUK » Fri Apr 15, 2011 6:36 pm

Just wondering.

I seem to recall someone saying that the Birmingham in house bid was to shed 200+ staff, so god knows how many staff the winning bid will shed, which got me thinking...... Whats going to happen to the surplus staff at Birmingham? 'Brumsrew' wrote that they are making obtaining a level transfer elsewhere very difficult if not impossible, so the question is; Are NOMS going to do the honourable thing and offer them VEDS b4 the takeover? Or are they going to let G4S take them over and then dispose of them on the cheap? Now taking bets at a bookies near you.

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Re: Surplus Birmingham staff - what will happen to them?

Post by baaabaaa » Fri Apr 15, 2011 7:38 pm

BoxerfanUK wrote:Just wondering.

I seem to recall someone saying that the Birmingham in house bid was to shed 200+ staff, so god knows how many staff the winning bid will shed, which got me thinking...... Whats going to happen to the surplus staff at Birmingham? 'Brumsrew' wrote that they are making obtaining a level transfer elsewhere very difficult if not impossible, so the question is; Are NOMS going to do the honourable thing and offer them VEDS b4 the takeover? Or are they going to let G4S take them over and then dispose of them on the cheap? Now taking bets at a bookies near you.
An interesting point. Presumably the protection offered by TUPE covers all rights?

The winning bid according to our No 1 was not the best or the cheapest.

baaabaaa

Re: Surplus Birmingham staff - what will happen to them?

Post by baaabaaa » Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:33 pm

An interesting section from the FCTU and PCS campaign 2008;

What the agreement means for you
We now have a formal agreement with the Cabinet Office which sets out in detail the steps that departments will have to take when there is a risk of redundancy. Unions will have a clear right to be informed and consulted throughout the process. These steps should ensure that any member who is declared to be surplus but wishes to continue to work in the Civil Service or associated areas will be made an alternative job offer. Those under threat of losing their jobs in one department will take priority in applying for vacancies in other departments.

The agreement is not an absolute guarantee of job security. But it will provide strong protection from compulsory redundancy. PCS remains opposed to any compulsory redundancies and the national executive committee has restated its intention to reconvene and decide on further industrial action should any compulsory redundancy notices be issued.

Privatisation and outsourcing
PCS remains implacably opposed to privatisation and other forms of out-sourcing. We have made clear to the employer our principled opposition to privatisation, whether to the private or “third” sector, and that we will continue to campaign and lobby against it. In the recent past we have had successes in the NHS Pensions Agency and Forensic Science Service.

Now, for the first time, we have national guidance on good practice for dealing with staff where their functions are being outsourced or privatised. Departments will have to consult with unions over outsourcing. They will have to take steps to avoid transferring staff to companies or charities only for them to be made redundant and justify any decision not to consider in-house bids. It has been agreed that this process will be overseen by the union and the Cabinet Office.

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Re: Surplus Birmingham staff - what will happen to them?

Post by johnnymac » Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:35 pm

I should imagine that the 'surplus' HMP Birmingham staff will be offered contracts at the new Featherstone 2 prison, when it opens, which will be near Wolverhampton.
Also I believe that Land Rover/Jaguar have announced new jobs in the area should any staff decide they have had enough of being 'screwed'.
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Re: Surplus Birmingham staff - what will happen to them?

Post by Wanderer » Sat Apr 16, 2011 1:02 pm

johnnymac wrote:I should imagine that the 'surplus' HMP Birmingham staff will be offered contracts at the new Featherstone 2 prison, when it opens, which will be near Wolverhampton.
Also I believe that Land Rover/Jaguar have announced new jobs in the area should any staff decide they have had enough of being 'screwed'.

And probably better terms and conditions too
Where the best just isn't good enough anymore

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Re: Surplus Birmingham staff - what will happen to them?

Post by Guest » Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:43 pm

BoxerfanUK wrote:Just wondering.

I seem to recall someone saying that the Birmingham in house bid was to shed 200+ staff, so god knows how many staff the winning bid will shed, which got me thinking...... Whats going to happen to the surplus staff at Birmingham? 'Brumsrew' wrote that they are making obtaining a level transfer elsewhere very difficult if not impossible, so the question is; Are NOMS going to do the honourable thing and offer them VEDS b4 the takeover? Or are they going to let G4S take them over and then dispose of them on the cheap? Now taking bets at a bookies near you.
Noone is going to be offered VEDS, it's been made quite clear to us, so, NOMS is being as honourable as we can all expect, ie, not at all. So far, G4S have not engaged with staff at all, only the t**t who runs the place and his selected band of cronies (all of whom will be as screwed as the rest of us after he buggers off, hopefully).

As for Featherstone 2, there is an ugly rumour now going round (and God, I hope it IS just a rumour!), that Birmingham staff will not be offered places at the new Featherstone 2 under TUPE. However, we will, apparently, be free to apply for posts at Featherstone 2, along with anyone else, as a new entrant.

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Re: Surplus Birmingham staff - what will happen to them?

Post by johnnymac » Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:58 pm

However, we will, apparently, be free to apply for posts at Featherstone 2, along with anyone else, as a new entrant.
Yes, I think that's how TUPE works. As soon as you apply for a transfer your TUPE protection will end as you are deemed to have terminated your contract.

What you have to judge is whether you are going to be one of the 'surplus' staff at HMP Birmingham, or wait for an offer of a new contract from G4S.
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Re: Surplus Birmingham staff - what will happen to them?

Post by Brumscrew » Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:10 pm

johnnymac wrote: What you have to judge is whether you are going to be one of the 'surplus' staff at HMP Birmingham, or wait for an offer of a new contract from G4S.
Unfortunately, noone knows who is "surplus", because shanley hasn't bothered to tell us yet (if he will at all). I'd gladly take a move to Featherstone 2, if I stayed on my current wage, or something vaguely similar, as long as I could get away from the inept and corrupt (mis)management. All that Birmingham staff want, is some straight answers from the powers that be! Not much to ask, you' think!

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Re: Surplus Birmingham staff - what will happen to them?

Post by spike » Sun Apr 17, 2011 1:49 pm

Brumscrew wrote:
johnnymac wrote: What you have to judge is whether you are going to be one of the 'surplus' staff at HMP Birmingham, or wait for an offer of a new contract from G4S.
Unfortunately, noone knows who is "surplus", because shanley hasn't bothered to tell us yet (if he will at all). I'd gladly take a move to Featherstone 2, if I stayed on my current wage, or something vaguely similar, as long as I could get away from the inept and corrupt (mis)management. All that Birmingham staff want, is some straight answers from the powers that be! Not much to ask, you' think!
I dont think anyone is bothered working for the private sector as long as your terms and conditions and staffing levels were the same,However we have to get into the real world the private sector is all about making money they dont give a toot about your safety and staffing levels as long as theirs profit

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Re: Surplus Birmingham staff - what will happen to them?

Post by Carbon » Sun Apr 17, 2011 1:58 pm

spike wrote:they dont give a toot about your safety and staffing levels as long as theirs profit
And HMPS do?

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Re: Surplus Birmingham staff - what will happen to them?

Post by Wanderer » Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:07 pm

Carbon wrote: And HMPS do?
Slightly better than the private sector do but only slightly!!!!
Where the best just isn't good enough anymore

HBP

Re: Surplus Birmingham staff - what will happen to them?

Post by HBP » Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:51 pm

Wanderer wrote:
Carbon wrote: And HMPS do?
Slightly better than the private sector do but only slightly!!!!
I would have expected G4S to have held a meeting with the staff of Birmingham at the first opportunity? I find it hard to believe they have not attempted to reassure them. The POA have not kept us informed Are they unaware the whole prison service is waiting for news? how we are all being treated begs belief. By the Government, G4S and our union. Staff off all grades and establishments do not feel valued and have become disengaged from their work. The union is in tatters. What a bloody mess.

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Re: Surplus Birmingham staff - what will happen to them?

Post by Ping » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:05 am

I would have expected G4S to have held a meeting with the staff of Birmingham at the first opportunity? I find it hard to believe they have not attempted to reassure them. The POA have not kept us informed Are they unaware the whole prison service is waiting for news? how we are all being treated begs belief. By the Government, G4S and our union. Staff off all grades and establishments do not feel valued and have become disengaged from their work. The union is in tatters. What a bloody mess.
I agree with the previous post. Last week, a visiting Senior G4S dignatary told staff at Birmingham; "Try not to become too despondent. Let's wait and see what the resulting legislation comes up with."

Clearly, any business is driven by what must be achieved to be within the law. But, I'm sure Birmingham staff could at least have been informed of their proposed hierarchical structure by now. Especially as they have reportedly signed for the place.

Rumours and best guesses will generate from lack of input. It's in our nature to surmise.
Keep calm and carry on.

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Re: Surplus Birmingham staff - what will happen to them?

Post by gh1978 » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:14 pm

When you are taking over a contract you have to do it all nicely nicely. The outgoing contractor (or in this case HMPS) has to let you in to go about the business or preparing for the start of your operating contract, but they don't have to let you in straight away - remember until that the change over date comes, the prison is still the responsibility of HMPS.

I was involved in a transfer of contracts in Immigration detention, from one contractor to another, and it was a very strange process. We issued out all new uniform to the staff, but in that instance the outgoing contractor wouldn't let the night staff (we took over at midnight) wear them to come on duty - they had to wear their old uniform, and get changed later.

G4S would probably love to get into Birmingham and start doing things ready for their transition, but they are very much in the hands of NOMS/HMPS as to what access they are allowed. I expect this will become more frequent as the handover date gets closer.

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Re: Surplus Birmingham staff - what will happen to them?

Post by kristorf » Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:24 pm

I can see prisons within the (I think) 70 mins travelling time being filled, we have an approx 35 officer shortfall at my place (plus god knows how many more will go thru 'capability' hearings) so there are openings, unless we have another wonderous re-profiling exercise that will 'loose' the N.I.P's

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