Fair & Sustainable-local pay allowance-have we been conned?

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BoxerfanUK
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Fair & Sustainable-local pay allowance-have we been conned?

Post by BoxerfanUK » Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:35 pm

WTF!!!! Or have I just missed something!!!! I've read through all 76 pages of the revised Fair & Sustainable document. Original was 37 pages.

If I've got this right then the goalposts have moved since the vote in favour of this crock of shite! Under the original document which was balloted, if you opted out of the new terms then those staff at jails that will no longer qualify for local pay allowance under the new terms still retained their right to that local pay allowance along with their current pay indefinitely.

The revised document now states (if I'm reading it correctly!) that local pay allowance will stop on 31st March 2015 whether you opt in OR OUT at Aylesbury, Littlehey, Bedford, Long Lartin, Bristol, Onley, Bullingdon, Reading, Bullwood Hall, SE Regional Woking, Chelmsford, Send, Coldingley, The Mount, Grendon/Springhill, Winchester, Huntercombe, Woodhill.

So from 1/4/2015 staff at the above jails face a pay cut of up to £2,600.00 per year (pensionable) and anyone 3 years away from retirement on that date faces losing up to £1462.00 on their pension too. SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME I'VE GOT THIS WRONG. :slnote:

See below.



Original Fair & Sustainable document dated November 2011

Page 7 Table 1: Current staff who choose to remain on their current terms and conditions from April 2013.........

Pay and allowances: You will continue to retain all allowances and payments that you are eligible to receive now (including Local Pay Addition)

Revised Fair & Sustainable document dated 9th February 2012

Page 11 (was page 7 in original version as above) Table 1: Current staff who choose to remain on their current terms and conditions from April 2013...........

Pay and allowances: You will continue to retain all allowances and payments that you currently receive. Access to and payment of these allowances in accordance with existing policy criteria will continue until March 2015. From 1 April 2015 access will be restricted to those allowances and payments where they exist in the new pay structure.Same revised document Page 42.........

Allowances and payments
136. The following allowances will apply in the new pay structure:
• Unsocial working hours
• Required hours addition (this includes Chaplain’s RHA)
• Boot and shoe (specialist elements payable to Dog Handlers, PEIs, C&R Instructors and Sports & Games Officers)
• Care and maintenance of dogs
137. The following payments will apply in the new structure:
• Dirty protest/extraneous duty payment
• Tornado
• Additional committed hours (ACH) (only at Prison Officer Band 3)
• Payment plus
• Cover payments
• Overtime
• On call payments
• Market supplement/recruitment and retention (new)
138. No other allowances will apply for those staff opting to move to the new pay structure.
139. Staff who choose not to opt in will continue to have access to all allowances and payments that they are eligible to receive now (including Local Pay Addition) until 31 March 2015. From 1 April 2015 new access to these allowances and payments will only continue where the same allowance or payment type is available in the new pay structure, for example RHA (paid at the current flat rate). Staff can retain allowances and payments that they are in receipt of on 31 March. Access to allowances and payments are subject to policy rules and criteria.

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Re: Fair & Sustainable-local pay allowance-have we been conn

Post by Perdition » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:22 am

We had an email recently regarding the allowances as there were a lot of queries. What I didnt expect was the clarification of the TYPING allowance. What on earth is it and why?!!!

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Re: Fair & Sustainable-local pay allowance-have we been conn

Post by spike » Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:32 am

Iv'e always argued with the staff at our place that your voting on something that is continuing to be altered by the Higher Management at the home office but no one listens,Perdition obviously they are just adding what they want and yes it looks like those establishments you've quoted are being shafted,Thank god iv'e only three years to do then i can leave this crock of S**t

officer

Re: Fair & Sustainable-local pay allowance-have we been conn

Post by officer » Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:03 am

JES is around the corner! I wonder what that will bring?

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Re: Fair & Sustainable-local pay allowance-have we been conn

Post by mollydog » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:51 pm

This was, and still is my concern with F+S, and our N.E.C ,they encouraged the membership to vote YES on a document that was,nt and still is,nt FINAL. I just hope there are,nt anymore nasty surprises for us. So much for protecting the terms and conditions of staff in post !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Last edited by mollydog on Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Fair & Sustainable-local pay allowance-have we been conn

Post by BoxerfanUK » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:13 pm

It won't really affect me as I'll be gone by then but like you mollydog, I would like to know WHY it is that the NEC can ballot with a recommendation for something that clearly hadn't been finalised and is still subject to change. They have totally let the membership down IMHO :?

NOMS must be laughing their socks off at us all :slcl:

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Re: Fair & Sustainable-local pay allowance-have we been conn

Post by Guest » Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:19 pm

Is the new payment of market supplement/recruitment and retention not going to supersede the area payment or London weighting ? If so does that not mean that ,as long as the payment is the same staff won't lose money? Question not a statement as I'm not sure.

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Re: Fair & Sustainable-local pay allowance-have we been conn

Post by Madra Rhu » Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:24 pm

I could only see that being paid in areas where it is required to achieve recruitment and retention. If not needed then why pay it. That could mean some establishments currently in receipt of LPA would lose out if it is deemed they don't meet the criteria for receiving the new allowances. And would the new allowances be payable to staff already employed? or only to new staff recruited after 1/4/15?
Always remember; the law and justice; never the twain shall meet. They are seperate and have nothing in common with each other. Bit like being married!!

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Re: Fair & Sustainable-local pay allowance-have we been conn

Post by BoxerfanUK » Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:23 pm

Guest wrote:Is the new payment of market supplement/recruitment and retention not going to supersede the area payment or London weighting ? If so does that not mean that ,as long as the payment is the same staff won't lose money? Question not a statement as I'm not sure.
I think page 27 answers your question

Market supplement/recruitment and retention payment (new)

75. It is our intention to introduce a system of non-consolidated payments to provide support with recruitment and/or retention difficulties. These will be only be paid where there is clear evidence this is necessary and will be used in the following circumstances:

• Market supplements to address recruitment and retention of professional/specialist staff, which will be paid on a reviewable basis
• To address recruitment issues in specific locations/areas

76. Such payments will not apply to those staff already in post, as market factors affecting the decision to make an exceptional payment would not apply to previous recruitment campaigns.

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Re: Fair & Sustainable-local pay allowance-have we been conn

Post by BoxerfanUK » Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:25 pm

Madra Rhu wrote:I could only see that being paid in areas where it is required to achieve recruitment and retention. If not needed then why pay it. That could mean some establishments currently in receipt of LPA would lose out if it is deemed they don't meet the criteria for receiving the new allowances. And would the new allowances be payable to staff already employed? or only to new staff recruited after 1/4/15?
Madra, the point being that the original document stated that staff opting out would keep the local allowance, a ballot was held, votes cast, agreement made, and now they've changed it! :slRA2:

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Re: Fair & Sustainable-local pay allowance-have we been conn

Post by Guest » Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:34 pm

We all seem surprised?
How else did you think they would beable to pay the 1 and 2 % bonuses that anyone in pay and grading phase 1 and on the top of their pay scale get for getting an achieved (1%) or exceeded (2%) on their spdr annually gets? This was of course removed on the package we voted on and reintroduced on version 2 , not bad when we are on a pay freeze that these managers get bonuses, albeit not in bankers levels but still worth a few thousand for a Governor grade, so to sum it up we lose ,governors gain and as I said at the start we are surprised?

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Re: Fair & Sustainable-local pay allowance-have we been conn

Post by Dino » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:41 pm

Boxer,

According to your Branch Secretary, stall in post who do not opt in will keep their LPA. NEC will publish a circular next week.
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf - George Orwell

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Re: Fair & Sustainable-local pay allowance-have we been conn

Post by BoxerfanUK » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:53 pm

Dino wrote:Boxer,

According to your Branch Secretary, stall in post who do not opt in will keep their LPA. NEC will publish a circular next week.
I hope you are right Dino, but thats not how the document reads at all, have you read it?

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Re: Fair & Sustainable-local pay allowance-have we been conn

Post by Dino » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:49 pm

Read the first copy in depth.... thought it was a pile of poop and voted against it - I was really quite amazed that so many people voted for it; let alone the fact that it wasn't a 'final offer' document.

Since then I've lost interest.... I'll wait for it all to come out and then look at my options - either sit tight or look at CM.
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf - George Orwell

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Re: Fair & Sustainable-local pay allowance-have we been conn

Post by Madra Rhu » Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:49 am

Boxerfan UK, my initial post was in response to the post above it by "Guest" and I believe it pretty much outlines in reasoned question form what you provided in your post drawing attention to page 27, point number 75 of the new document and quoting it.

Forgive me but I am not a big fan of using the quote button when the post I am responding to is immediately above mine, I feel it is unneccessary but I can see how it could cause confusion.

I am fully aware of the point you make, and here I will use the quote button.....
BoxerfanUK wrote: Madra, the point being that the original document stated that staff opting out would keep the local allowance, a ballot was held, votes cast, agreement made, and now they've changed it! :slRA2:
and I have to say if bemuses and confuses as well as puzzles me no end.

It seems then that the NEC brought to the membership an incomplete package to vote on. What confuses me is why did Conference when sitting as the ruling body at the Special Delegates Conference permit them to? What bemuses me is why didn't the membership send the vote packing .when they had an opportunity to do so by refusing to participate in it? And finally what puzzles me is where in the POA rules and constitution does it say that when a vote has been held and what is on the table has been accepted, the NEC have the mandate to continue to negotiate changes without bringing those changes back to the membership for another vote?

I would suggest that a few disgruntled members should apply through the legal aid committee of the POA to launch a legal challenge. There will of course be a conflict of interest announced as Thompsons cannot represent both sides. However there is the facility within the rules of legal representation for one party to represented by another law firm paid for by the legal fund of the POA. It is sad that it should come to that however as you rightly point out Boxerfan staff voted on what they were told in one document only to find that it changed overnight and they now have no say.......that is very very very wrong and I would suggest that the NEC in this matter are wide open to a legal challenge as are NOMS and a complaint to the certification officer about the NEC conduct in this may very well be warranted. It doesn't smack of giving the best representation as a truly free and independant trades union now does it?

Of course if Dinos' post is correct then there may well be no need to take such action. Also as I read it from your quotes of the two documents it is NEW access to LPA that stops from 1 April 2015 and staff currently in receipt on 31 March 2015 can continue to draw it as long as they don't do anything that transfers them onto the new T&Cs'.

So perhaps the NEC have done their job right after all?

Still why are they continuing to negotiate if a document has been voted on and accepted surely then they need a fresh mandate to negotiate changes and must then bring any changes negotiated back to the membership for ratification by way of a ballot. Isn't that what the rules and constitution say?
Always remember; the law and justice; never the twain shall meet. They are seperate and have nothing in common with each other. Bit like being married!!

Regards

Madra Rhu

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