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Market Testing

high profile stories and issues for Prison Officers

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Meresyke
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Market Testing

Post by Meresyke » Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:18 pm

I understand that the bids on the latest round of Market Testing have to be submitted in the next couple of weeks. I guess that the results will be out mid summer.

stitchedup
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Re: Market Testing

Post by stitchedup » Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:31 am

August, if I remember rightly.

GAOLGUARD
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Re: Market Testing

Post by GAOLGUARD » Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:28 am

Result by October
Meanwhile next traunch of prisons will be released soon, I heard there could be 12 this time.

Meresyke
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Re: Market Testing

Post by Meresyke » Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:46 pm

The original date for the first stage submissions was/is 13th April. This may have slipped by a couple of weeks, but don't think that it would be as much as 4 months.

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Re: Market Testing

Post by GAOLGUARD » Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:13 pm

Meresyke wrote:The original date for the first stage submissions was/is 13th April. This may have slipped by a couple of weeks, but don't think that it would be as much as 4 months.
27th, but the result will be back end of October

stitchedup
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Re: Market Testing

Post by stitchedup » Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:14 pm

So, we will then see if "Fair & Sustainable" & the collaboration with MITIE succeeds or fails (not that NOMS haven't already decided where the axe will fall).

Meresyke
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Re: Market Testing

Post by Meresyke » Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:24 am

My understanding is that the bids are being submitted today. I believe that a degree of "bartering" then takes place to get the so called best price, before the winning bids are announced in July.

snowdrop342
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Re: Market Testing

Post by snowdrop342 » Tue May 01, 2012 10:41 am

And so we wait with baited breath where the axe will fall yet again.There are no winners at all in this only the bean counters.God help us all in the long run.Wait until all the propaganda /diatribe/verbal diarrhoea from so called managers/ministers starts yet again & again!

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scratch
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Re: Market Testing

Post by scratch » Fri May 04, 2012 10:00 pm

Quite correct. Although there will be winners coming out of all this. That will be the shareholders of the private companies who will no doubt gain financially and the government who will have usurped their responsiblity to the public so that, when it all goes wrong, they can say it isn't their farcical policies that are wrong, it's because the company couldn't run the jail properly.

And I have no doubt that it will go wrong at some stage but unfortunately we are well passed the stage of being able to fix this. That should have been done a long time ago but nobody wanted to. I tend to view the strident, aggressive calls from some quarters with a degree of amusment now. The wailing and nashing of teeth, the vilification of the trade union, the apathy long displayed by the average uniformed staff members and the self centered atitude of the individual. All have been grandly taken advantage of by the policy makers and we are going to be well and truly shafted!

Opinions are like ar$eholes. Everybody has one. Wonderful democracy in action. Unfortunately democracy in this country has been cowed by the almighty pound note, the rich and the powerful. The government is in the ascendent, their opinion is the loudest of all, all others being crushed underfoot by spin doctoring and propoganda. Market testing is here to stay and there is nothing we can do about it. All I can say is that the government with the loudest opinion and voice must equally be the biggest ar$eholes of them all
The POA Minuteman, on duty 24/7, 365.......NOMS is a four letter word! Now available for after dinner speaking and speech writing!!

stitchedup
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Re: Market Testing

Post by stitchedup » Sat May 05, 2012 7:01 am

I have mentioned this before, but a reminder.

From the PCS website:

The Level Playing Field and Principles of Competition (POC)
On 1 October 2011 HMP Birmingham was handed over to G4S, following their successful market test bid, where the in house bid was defeated. Under the Principles of Competition which governed the tender process, the in house bid had between 13% and 21% added to its cost to create what was termed a level playing field.

The government believe that a straight comparison of bids between an in-house public sector bid and an external private sector bid would be unfair to the private sector, and to create a so called level playing field, costs are notionally added on to the in-house bid.

The amount to be added is contained within a document titled “Principles of Competition (POC)”. The justification for having add-on’s, and also the level of the add-on, is highly questionable. The explanations contained within the POC documents are vague.

The Government produces a document with the word "principles" in it. Irony in action.

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Re: Market Testing

Post by Tommy Turnkey » Sun May 06, 2012 3:22 pm

So basically the HMP bid could have been cheaper,thought the whole point was value for money?

snowdrop342
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Re: Market Testing

Post by snowdrop342 » Sun May 06, 2012 4:20 pm

I don't think it really comes down to'value for money' It seems to me that the govt want to alienate themselves from the burden of running prisons & have decided to farm them out to the private sector thus alleviating them of the financial burden longterm.I for one firmly believe that as the state has incarcerated an individual,then the state should have the ultimate responsibility for that persons wellbeing until deemed fit enough to be returned to society at large.It was what I pay some of my tax for.isn't it? Having the private sector in charge of an individual surely becomes a profit making exercise & that surely is not right & just.Unfortunately there will be more & more prisons farmed out to the private sector as inroads have now been been made & there wont be any turning back by this or any other govt.A really sad state of affairs for all us public staff with this threat & the crock of shit which is F&S-or what ever name that is called in the future.Work longer,pay more into it & get substantially less at the end of it-that is if you live long enough to draw your pension as by the time the govt say you've got to work til,there's not much time left on this planet!I feel for staff who through certain committments have no choice but to stay in service,me-I'm off sharpish as I've woken up & smelt the coffee.Counting down the pay days til I resign & it's really not that far in the future.I have a cunning plan & it's all coming to fruition.HMPS has little hold on me.Oh to live a simple life with an employer who supports staff.HMPS is not that employer as they couldn't give a f***k about us staff.The sooner some people realise that the better.I look forward to when I've left-the good old days have well & truly gone forever.

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Re: Market Testing

Post by GAOLGUARD » Sun May 06, 2012 4:30 pm

snowdrop342 wrote:I don't think it really comes down to'value for money' It seems to me that the govt want to alienate themselves from the burden of running prisons & have decided to farm them out to the private sector thus alleviating them of the financial burden longterm.I for one firmly believe that as the state has incarcerated an individual,then the state should have the ultimate responsibility for that persons wellbeing until deemed fit enough to be returned to society at large.It was what I pay some of my tax for.isn't it? Having the private sector in charge of an individual surely becomes a profit making exercise & that surely is not right & just.Unfortunately there will be more & more prisons farmed out to the private sector as inroads have now been been made & there wont be any turning back by this or any other govt.A really sad state of affairs for all us public staff with this threat & the crock of shit which is F&S-or what ever name that is called in the future.Work longer,pay more into it & get substantially less at the end of it-that is if you live long enough to draw your pension as by the time the govt say you've got to work til,there's not much time left on this planet!I feel for staff who through certain committments have no choice but to stay in service,me-I'm off sharpish as I've woken up & smelt the coffee.Counting down the pay days til I resign & it's really not that far in the future.I have a cunning plan & it's all coming to fruition.HMPS has little hold on me.Oh to live a simple life with an employer who supports staff.HMPS is not that employer as they couldn't give a f***k about us staff.The sooner some people realise that the better.I look forward to when I've left-the good old days have well & truly gone forever.
I think I almost fully concur, the only issue we should ask is how has it took competition from the private sector to make us sharpen up our act and make prisons less costly to the tax-payer?
I am sure your right when we use the well worn clique that the good old days have gone, I hope to go soon and will always be grateful for the living but I know I will have no regrets.

snowdrop342
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Re: Market Testing

Post by snowdrop342 » Sun May 06, 2012 5:23 pm

I think all staff will agree that as a service we've had to evolve somewhat as times obviously do change.What is a bitter pill to swallow is that staff generally have been loyal & conscientous to this service.It is staff who-we are often told-are this service's greatest asset.Why is it then that so called managers & the hierachy in HMPS & indeed ministers are totally two faced & against sound advice from staff,try to introduce working practices that are often impractical & very often dangerous?.The Govt seems to think that the private sector can do it better.Well the next time a jail goes up-we'll all say-yet again-we told you so.The only advantage that the private sector has is money.They don't care about staffing levels or dangerous working practices.All they are concerned about is if that particular jail is profitable & if not why not? If there needs to be more cuts,they will do it & if their staff don't like it-hand your keys in,there's someone else eager to earn your wage.A private sector wage which doesn't reflect the importance of the role of Prison Officer.

stitchedup
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Re: Market Testing

Post by stitchedup » Sun May 06, 2012 8:46 pm

Snowdrop, whilst I agree with most of what you say, privatisation does not alleviate the Government from the financial burden in the longterm at all.
Youv'e then got to remember that the private sector, on top of its contract cost also claims "expenses" for running their prisons. These can run into many more millions. This is nothing to do with saving money.
The private sector before Birmingham was sold out was taking 15% of the overall budget for running 8% of the estate, work it out.
It's still the Government (the taxpayer) paying the bill, & with the add on which is now thought to be more than 21% for the next round of market testing, an even bigger bill than a wholly public sector prison service. If you think about it, the add on has to be more now to take account of the savings made in the public sector bid from the collaboration with MITIE & savings made from F & S. With a Government that is totally in hock with the private sector & an opposition which would do the same, nothing will stop privatisation.
It's favours for the private sector, nothing more, nothing less. It's also a slap in the face for the taxpayer, as it's spending more in a time of cutbacks, not less.

Please understand, I'm not having a go at those who work in the private estate, we're all doing the same job.

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