thought for the day
we must get away from this notion that criminals need to be punished. why should they be punished? :slno: this is an outmoded method of dealing with a person who committed a crime. they should be held in custody, preferably for a short a time as possible, so it doesn't cost too much and if when they are released, they then commit a further crime, well even then they still don't deserve punishment, instead they should be welcomed back into custody, preferably for an even shorter time than previously, so it costs even less than the first time. when released back onto the poor old UK public again, if they commit a further crime again, well - it's to be expected. the UK have a 'REVOLVING DOOR JUSTICE system,' it's not that good at actually providing justice for the UK public, but it is cheap and that's what counts :slsad:

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Does F&S give us the proper pay for the job we do?

high profile stories and issues for Prison Officers

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BoxerfanUK
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Does F&S give us the proper pay for the job we do?

Post by BoxerfanUK » Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:17 pm

Couldn't help but chuckle at Mr Wagstaffes video ont tintranet t'other week telling us how under F&S we'll be being paid the PROPER WAGE in future for the work that we do.

So, a 19% pay cut in the top wage of Prison Officers is the proper wage for the job is it? Presumably Prison Officers have been way overpaid for years and F&S finally redresses the balance!

I'm sure there'll be thousands in uniform that will disgaree with him and will also be wondering if both he and the other NOMS senior managers' positions have also had their salaries reviewed downwards to the tune of 19% as well. Will Mr Spurr & co also be 'opting in'? Oh, that'll be a no to both then. :slcl:

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Re: Does F&S give us the proper pay for the job we do?

Post by snowdrop342 » Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:27 pm

I've already redressed the balance as for a long time I've been doing less work than I should have & I'll continue to chip away at my supposed workload.If I (& all Staff) are not worthy of a rise then I for one will do far less-simples!If I don't do it (the work) then so be it.Who cares about me,so called managers don't,so I'll not loose any shut eye over it.Revenge can be all so sweet on my palate!

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Re: Does F&S give us the proper pay for the job we do?

Post by ZzoL » Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:00 pm

you know id sort of respect them more if they just came out and said as the country is broke we are having our budget slashed, we can't afford to pay prison officers 28k+ a year and this is the only way to slow down the eventual privatization of the whole service to companies who only pay 23.5k a year. at-least it would be truthful

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Ethnic
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Re: Does F&S give us the proper pay for the job we do?

Post by Ethnic » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:07 am

Much debate at the moment where I am concerning the 17% unsocial hours element for those that opt in.

Some saying that C.M.s have been told they only have to do one E.D. a fortnight and a weekend every 10 weeks to keep that part (also O.M.U. Staff told the same). Others saying why would any employer inflate their pay bill by these amounts when they don't need to.

With everything still in draft form how is a person expected to be able to decide whether they want the job, with the attached T&C's, or not?

For me it's clear, I'll stay where I am.

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Re: Does F&S give us the proper pay for the job we do?

Post by Guest 2 » Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:55 am

Hi Ethnic, :slnote: You have made a very good point that is slipping by those being flattered by promotion to CM... The 17% (Red hours) Mmmmmm? I believe can be taken away at any time when not needed.

Senior managers are promising staff (on promotion) that they will be eligible, but once signed to the new T&C’s they may/will find that they are going to get a severe pay cuts if things are challenged.

Will the POA and others challenge what amount of shifts are classed as RED as I'm confused. Locally establishments are doing what they want.... To me alternate weekends and nights will be the minimum needed to qualify. Staff need to remember that if they opt in they will go into a ROTATION role and could be moved to one that does not qualify at any time?

Any info would be much appreciated. :slzi:

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Re: Does F&S give us the proper pay for the job we do?

Post by guest » Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:35 am

According to our governor custodial managers will be doiung everything running the whole prison lock stock. Oscar 1, adjudications, review boards, investigations, ALL SPDR's, in fact you name it CM's will be doing it. One can only wonder just what exactly the manager E&F's on 10-15K more per year will be doing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is one person that will be telling them just where to stick their CM job as I do not have MUG written across my forehead. IMO CM will be a DPSM in uniform, run totally ragged and beasted until they drop. sacrificial lambs to the slaughter

No thanks :slraz:

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Ethnic
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Re: Does F&S give us the proper pay for the job we do?

Post by Ethnic » Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:55 am

A lot of Management are saying different things around the role of the C.M.

The red hours issue is woolly at best. I can find no reference to what percentage of hours in the red sector is needed to qualify for the pay.

When the Job Descriptions are finalised, there can be no deviation from them - my understanding - they will set what duties and tasks each role can fulfill, there will be no scope for local "interpretation".

Yes, there will be rotation, according to what is written so far. So, even if one C.M. post does qualify for the 17% it's not a given that an individual will always be in that role and thus receive that pay. No matter what a Governor may tell his Staff, if the instruction comes down from on high that the pay bill needs to be cut, where easier to look than the 17% for someone you don't need "out of hours".

Whilst the J.D.'s are still in draft form, they give an indication of what the future holds for anyone thinking about signing up.

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Re: Does F&S give us the proper pay for the job we do?

Post by Guest » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:16 pm

today I was informed that if you apply for CM post and get it , you then have to do a 2 year training programme similar to DPSM/Prison Officer had to do...if you fail this after 2 years then you revert back down to supervising officer.....

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Re: Does F&S give us the proper pay for the job we do?

Post by kristorf » Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:25 am

Guest wrote:today I was informed that if you apply for CM post and get it , you then have to do a 2 year training programme similar to DPSM/Prison Officer had to do...if you fail this after 2 years then you revert back down to supervising officer.....
So in other words two years of near slavery working 50+ hours a week then a 90% chance of 'failure', just like the DPSM 'rank'

Anyone who goes for it after seeing the DPSM debarcle is a fool and deserves everything that comes their way (just my opinion)

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Re: Does F&S give us the proper pay for the job we do?

Post by ZzoL » Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:38 pm

Guest wrote:today I was informed that if you apply for CM post and get it , you then have to do a 2 year training programme similar to DPSM/Prison Officer had to do...if you fail this after 2 years then you revert back down to supervising officer.....
what about those who are already DPSM and have ticked all the boxes and done the tests etc?

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Re: Does F&S give us the proper pay for the job we do?

Post by Guest » Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:42 pm

What about DPSM's............


I think your going to start earning your money and pick up the work dropped to SO's....

Good luck :-) :slwh:

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Re: Does F&S give us the proper pay for the job we do?

Post by Carboncopy » Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:04 pm

Guest wrote:What about DPSM's............


I think your going to start earning your money and pick up the work dropped to SO's....

Good luck :-) :slwh:
Work dropped to SO's!!! With the exception of SPDR's the job description for Supervising Offices is pretty much that of a current Senior Officer.

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Re: Does F&S give us the proper pay for the job we do?

Post by Ethnic » Sat Jul 28, 2012 8:55 am

Not the ones I saw.

Seniors where I am are already wondering how to fill their spare time - when they're not part of the unlock figure that is.

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Re: Does F&S give us the proper pay for the job we do?

Post by Guest » Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:37 pm

Exactly..........

SO's or new Supervisors as they will be will only do what's on the job description and supervise prisoners same pay a lot less responsibility. All the detailing, SPDR's, HR stuff can live with the new. Oh and the supervision of C&R incidents etc.

It’s all yours CM's the work that went down to SO's is coming back to you!

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Ethnic
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Re: Does F&S give us the proper pay for the job we do?

Post by Ethnic » Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:20 am

Back to the pay..

Another thing to consider for those thinking about signing for the new T&C's is the core day.

We've seen Friday E.D.'s disappear without a murmur. How long before the rest of them go the same way? The Gov'ts stated intention is for all Prisoners to be full time employed, so what about them working until 16.00, back for an hour or so shower & phone, then tea and away by 18.00?

How many would be needed to cover until the Night Shift comes in and at what Grade - we have O.S.G.'s doing it now so why not then? You certainly wouldn't need a C.M. or O.M.U. officer there at that point. This is where I see savings might be made and of course it would be national policy so no chance for local arrangements

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