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Prison Officers: Baton, CS or body armour?

all other issues that relate to Prison Officers

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if you were allowed only ONE piece of equipment..... which would it be?

CS
29
21%
Body Armour
20
14%
Baton
43
31%
Handcuffs
5
4%
Taser
23
17%
Firearm
16
12%
whatever Colin Moses says
2
1%
 
Total votes: 138

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Prison Officers: Baton, CS or body armour?

Post by falkor » Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:51 pm

old sweat wrote:
Burnlee wrote:TBH in certain establishments and environments I think some kind of chemical incapacitant is a good shout.
Thanks for agreeing with me. Last night on 'cops with camera's'' there was an incident where police were trying to restrain a muscular drunk young man and were struggling! One burst of CS and it was all over with no animosity afterwards towards the arresting officers. Proof that incapacitants can work.We need them too!
Yes I know cons could take them off us, just like our keys, radio, batons etc.
Colin Moses has yet again asked for body armour to be issued, should it be? :slhmm:
if you were allowed only ONE piece of equipment..... which would it be? if you are not HMP, then just vote with what in your opnion HMP officers should be supplied with :slhe:

:slnote: Police Officers are regularly trained to use CS incapacitant spray but are often heavily cautioned against using CS inside buildings, because the CS can then contaminate people who the officer did not intend be contaminated, outside unwanted CS is easily dispersed but could CS ever really be used inside a building? Anybody have experience of this?
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Re: Prison Officers: Baton, CS or body armour?

Post by davidt » Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:42 pm

All staff should be afforded the same level of protection regardless of which prison you work at. I currently work in the female estate and like my colleagues who work with the juvenile's, we can't carry batons. I hope in light of what has happened in HMP Frankland this week we are all issued with the personal protection equipment which could prevent the injuries these officers have sustained.

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Re: Prison Officers: Baton, CS or body armour?

Post by Prae » Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:00 pm

PAVA is carried by certain specialist officers already. They use the jet sprays rather than the ones that emit a cloud of gas to minimise the risk of gassing themselves.

I feel chemical incapacitant sprays are much safer for staff and inmates and are the way forward. I really wouldn't want to wear body armour for 13 hour stints.

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Re: Prison Officers: Baton, CS or body armour?

Post by old sweat » Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:27 am

Prae wrote:PAVA is carried by certain specialist officers already. They use the jet sprays rather than the ones that emit a cloud of gas to minimise the risk of gassing themselves.

I feel chemical incapacitant sprays are much safer for staff and inmates and are the way forward. I really wouldn't want to wear body armour for 13 hour stints.
Pava should replace CS on this survey!

As to body armour, the latest generation ballistic/anti stab armour for general use is now very lightweight and quite thin>-we are not talking about military armour. Maybe somebody who knows any police officers who wear armour on a regular basis can comment on the wearing of armour during a long shift

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Re: Prison Officers: Baton, CS or body armour?

Post by scarcasm » Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:33 am

The issue with Body Armour is that you'd still get the age old problem of it stinking.
Assuming you're not issued with your own, but rather, a lucky dip from the kit locker.
You're reliant on not getting yours after the 'Beast of Bodmin' put it back in the locker 20 minutes earlier.
Can't imagine a shift would be particularly pleasant wearing that.

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Re: Prison Officers: Baton, CS or body armour?

Post by falkor » Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:42 am

and obviously summer is way worse than winter

The cops who are directed to wear body armour end up wearing it from the minute they clock on, to the minute they go home

whether they are on rest break, doing paperwork, interviewing somebody, having a cuppa, doing car maintenance

they have learnt that the minute they take it off to do anything "mundane," THAT is when the call goes up for urgent assiatance 2 miles down the line and they end up AT that urgent assistance, without their stab vest

yes in theory they would have time to go and get their stab vest from wherever they put it down, but in practice IT DOESN'T HAPPEN! so hence they end up with them on ALL THE TIME, EVERY DAY

I can see that "code" translating to Prison Officers too - in the winter and cold periods - not too much of an issue, but in warm environments - it's pretty tough
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Re: Prison Officers: Baton, CS or body armour?

Post by Burnlee » Sat Mar 20, 2010 9:05 pm

I worked in Hospital security after I left the RAF and before joining HMPS, part of the uniform was to wear a stab vest for the duration of your duty. They were pretty heavy and expensive. At the end of the shift I used to used disinfecting wipes from A&E to clean the vest thoroughly, which worked to some degree.
I admit that initially they were a pain in the arse to wear and felt heavy, but after some time you got used to it. Mind you during the summer you did sweat like mad.
If there are more lightweight ones available, then that would be good.

I don't think that HMP would dip into their pockets for any protection for us when they have brass name placques to have made for their office doors.

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Re: Prison Officers: Baton, CS or body armour?

Post by scarcasm » Sat Mar 20, 2010 9:23 pm

I remember that we had a one in 5 chance of developing Boils after finishing month long stint of guard duty & their lovely selection of vests @ 4Div.

(I can LOL about it now)....

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Re: Prison Officers: Baton, CS or body armour?

Post by qweSma » Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:09 pm

Hi Folks

Might be able to help, having been a prison officer for some 10 years and then becoming a copper about 12 months ago, I have seen both sides. the police body armour is good its is quite light and after a while it just becomes part of the job. However you get hot and sweaty quickly when you start doing the more practical side of the job. Wearing body armour as a landing officer would be a nightmare, I cant imagine doing a cell spin or rubbing down a job load of cons whilst wearing it. Obviously there is a time and a place in prisons for armour but i dont think it should be routine for all officers to wear it.
As for other equipment, it is long overdue for the powers that be to realise that ALL officers no matter what the establishment should have a batton and the facility to use PAVA in certain circumstances should get serious consideration.

Sorry to go on !!

Skippy

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Re: Prison Officers: Baton, CS or body armour?

Post by old sweat » Sun Mar 28, 2010 7:40 pm

I would suggest that the chances of landing officers being issued with CS/Pava or having the said sprays kept in the gate lodge for specially trained staff ie C&R instructors ( like in N Ireland)/ Tornado staff to use in a serious situation is nil! There would have to be a couple of officer murdered and hundreds of officers seriously injured for the service to even consider the issue!

So what about the issue of 'uk legal' self defense sprays such as 'stoppa red' which emits red foam or 'bouncer spray' which emits a cloud of uv repulsive liquid or 'dye witness' which emits green gel , 'dye jet that emits blue DNA dye to mention just four- there is about 8-10 different types on the UK market- These sprays are non toxic, are not section 5 firearms and legal to buy and carry in the UK - for a lawful reason!- the police might like to disagree!

Do you think this would be acceptable to the powers above?

is there any legal reason why staff- officers, OSG's and non uniform staff cannot carry them at work- if the no1 agrees to them

Could our colleagues in the private sector carry them?

Has anybody reading this been sprayed with them? if yes are they any good?

Has anybody out there carried them in former jobs?

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Re: Prison Officers: Baton, CS or body armour?

Post by Prae » Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:01 pm

There is no legal reason why Prison Officers can't carry PAVA, indeed national instructors already do.

These dye sprays foam up a little and thats about it, they're useless for stopping a determined attack. The colour gel is really useless because 9/10 times you will know who attacked you.

PAVA is much cheaper than the current issue batons which are £95 each, and much less likely to cause permanent injury or death. It just makes sense, but then again we are in the Prison Service!

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Re: Prison Officers: Baton, CS or body armour?

Post by Easylife » Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:05 pm

the last thing I need in bend up is to be twatted by some buffoon with a stave or sprayed in the face with gas or spray .I dont want to sweat my cobblers off in a stab vest either . It would be nice to cuff a prisoner sooner rather than later,especially if the Senoir has nipped off for a brew on another house block and kept the cuffs. It might save the prisoner some grief as well and that is all that matters theses days.,is nt it ?
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Re: Prison Officers: Baton, CS or body armour?

Post by old sweat » Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:51 am

Easylife wrote:the last thing I need in bend up is to be twatted by some buffoon with a stave or sprayed in the face with gas or spray .I dont want to sweat my cobblers off in a stab vest either . It would be nice to cuff a prisoner sooner rather than later,especially if the Senoir has nipped off for a brew on another house block and kept the cuffs. It might save the prisoner some grief as well and that is all that matters theses days.,is nt it ?
I'm all for batons,armour and Pava, But putting emotions and frustrations aside I've got to agree with you. There are officers at my place I would not trust with a feather duster let alone a baton, pava, coming to the rescue of officers in fear of their lives or being part of a 3 offr team!

As to armour it wouldn't bother me wearing it!

If the above were to be issued then there would have to be some serious training taking place and also the 'right type' of officer would have to be recruited!- I hope you know what i mean!, Ive seen officers refusing to get involved in any type of violent incident, and their C&R training is absolutely appalling! (recruiting? training issues!) There are also officers who have a problem with 'red mist'!! or just like scrapping which itself is unprofessional and dangerous to all !

Cuffs ,yes a good idea, I've seen new generation SO's with a year or so in the job carrying cuffs and not being able to put them on a con and giving them to a more experienced officer to apply. They should be standard issue. When a con is cuffed they generally stop being aggressive, which is good for all .

Rant over with, hope i've not offended anybody! :slby:

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Re: Prison Officers: Baton, CS or body armour?

Post by Easylife » Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:32 am

I think there is a big difference in jails across the country .It would be unfair for somebody in a sleepy cat C to criticise someone in a inner city Cat B local for wanting extra protection .
I would not criticise anybody wanting to wear body armour and my own personal opinion could be changed by experience at any given time .
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Re: Prison Officers: Baton, CS or body armour?

Post by booz » Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:11 pm

davidt wrote:All staff should be afforded the same level of protection regardless of which prison you work at. I currently work in the female estate and like my colleagues who work with the juvenile's, we can't carry batons. I hope in light of what has happened in HMP Frankland this week we are all issued with the personal protection equipment which could prevent the injuries these officers have sustained.
What's their reason for not permitting them to carry a batons?

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